140. 1972-08-27

16582 Veneta 32:20 (31:22 actual)

Main theme at 1:04 and 12:15.
First verse at 12:35.
Tiger at 29:17.
Goes into El Paso.


This one gets directly to business with a few runs through the main theme, after which they dig right into the two-chord Dark Star pattern and start mining for gold. At 2:57 the music takes a subtle turn into a moodier direction, and the two chords start to recede a little. Now there are waves coming in and drawing out, and the music is quietening a bit although if anything getting more intense. Keith is nicely audible as he releases little cascades that echo Garcia’s statements and propel them forward. The latter’s pinch harmonics at 5:53 begin his most extended train of thought yet, culminating at 6:12 in a descending figure beginning on A, repeated four times, which feels kind of like a stripped-down version of Bright Star.


Lesh walks Garcia up to another high flourish at 6:41, which brings this segment to its peak of mellow intensity; something else needs to happen now, as it seems they’ve now gone as far as they’re going to get with this current avatar of the group mind. They quiet down a little and at 6:54 Garcia starts worrying at permutations of the main theme in the upper register, but they’re not going there yet. At 7:39 Kreutzmann triggers Garcia’s triplets that usher in the next section, and there’s a new sense of urgency in the music. It is getting louder and more forceful; Godchaux is shoving a little, and Weir’s guitar squalls.


Kreutzmann drives this section, alternately hanging back and pushing with his snare, until at 8:24 he locks in with Garcia and they bring this section to a peak. At 9:08 Garcia starts signaling for the main theme, but no one is in a hurry—they all seem to know where they’re going, and they take their time, and there’s another little peak at about 10:08. As this is winding down, at 10:24 Garcia trades Sputnik licks with Godchaux, and then they paddle in place for a bit, still not ready to give in to the theme.


Starting at 11:31, there is some madness! Garcia briefly stabs out a fragment of a rock and roll riff, then bursts into a high rolling figure (11:49) which Weir and Godchaux underscore, and then Keith and Jerry lock into a descending line that puts an explanation point on the preceding matters and takes them into the theme at last. This leads to the verse very quickly; they don’t pull back on the tempo as much as they sometimes do, and the verse seems to clop right along.


As they return at 13:56, Keith seems to want to play something with a laid back jazz feel, and the rest pick up on what he’s putting down, building out a groove until Garcia comes in at 14:31 with some eerie volume swells. Lesh handles the melody here, with Garcia providing atmosphere and the rest grooving. At 15:28 Jerry starts to build a line, and they maintain the easy bounce as he elaborates.


At 16:27 Godchaux decides that it needs to get weirder, and as he throws in some stranger notes everyone responds as the groove starts to stretch and warp. At 16:50 Garcia starts an uneasy vamp, and Weir and Godchaux egg him on. At 17:22 Jerry hints at a transition to atonality, and perhaps a meltdown. Phil seems game at first, but then at 17:37 he changes their trajectory by hammering the A, the tonal center of Dark Star, and everyone rallies around as they come to a little peak, which then disperse into a frenetic jam in A.


This has run its course by 19:45, and we shift into a section with a Slipknot or perhaps Stronger Than Dirt flavor. This is starting to cohere nicely, but they don’t see a future in it and by 21:10 we’re down to Kreutzmann and Lesh. The latter blithely riffs away for a while until at 22:13 Godchaux joins in. They seem to be laying the basis for another vigorous jam, which is ratified by Garcia at 22:51, as he puts in some rather Weir-like high chords at first, then wriggles into a profuse lead line. As Weir returns, Garcia seems torn between keeping them in a funky jam and leading them into a meltdown, but the resulting hybrid seems to be ratcheting into weird-out territory.


Yet, it stays funky, largely thanks to Lesh, who eschews the monster movie chords and keeps walking briskly along, and Kreutzmann who maintains the backbeat. As we hit the 27 minute mark they start to break up the groove, and a meltdown seems imminent. But the groove will not die so easily; at 27:32, Garcia in one ear and Godchaux in the other whip up some fusion, which is more or less what you get when you cross a Grateful Dead meltdown with a strong groove.


At 28:49 Jerry seems to be definitely moving them toward a Tiger. He gives up on consensus at 29:17, unleashing the Tiger and letting the chips fall where they may. They don’t take it over the top or linger over it; at 29:58 Garcia’s done with it, and he starts playing some arpeggios, which Keith picks up, and then Lesh starts playing some slow melodic stuff which takes them into space. This briefly gains intensity as Phil throws in some distorted chords, but they seem to be ready to end it and finally Garcia starts playing Morning Dew, then he suddenly aborts as they go into El Paso. I had a hard time determining exactly what happened here—in contrast to the 21st, there wasn’t a strong veto, and Weir’s suggestion of El Paso at first seemed just as tentative as Jerry’s Morning Dew proposal, but in any case it is the former which carries the day.


It is rather difficult to evaluate this one, particularly because it is impossible not to be mindful, as I review it, of its reputation. It is certainly a great version, and they are in a peak time for Dark Star, so that is not said lightly. This is a version with lots of power and beauty, although it has a bit less depth and variety than the very top renditions of the year. Even though it is 31 minutes long, I sometimes am left feeling like something else should have happened in the second half, because this is rather groove-oriented in a way, and not that exploratory. I’d put this just below the top rank of 1972, in any case, but not by much.


What was said:

JSegel:



Well, this one is classic and on film, which is very intense; there's lots of footage of the band playing, it’s cool to see Jerry staring into his own head as his fingers move. And a lot of close ups of his fingers, doing the pinch harmonics, plucking, picking, moving, adjusting knobs on guitars and amps, close up of the Colorsound wah pedal. Quite educational, and the first filmed version of Dark Star (that I know of). Also some great Phil moments and some funny scenes where Bob stops and looks at what everybody else is doing. The camera by Keith’s side is mostly over his head, but there’s some keyboard action shots. A lot but not all of the song footage is in the movie, of course the released film is cut with a bunch of animation and “trippy ****” some of the time, but a lot of good synced footage is there. And the naked guy who looks like he’s on Jerry’s shoulder (he seems to have put on shorts later, or maybe they’re drawn-in in the latest cut of the film?) And a child that runs across the stage twice, only Bob seems to even notice the first time, Jerry laughs the second stage-run.

Anyhow, in the course of this hot, hot daytime concert, they take a break to allow a sunset and cooling for the hot afternoon, coming back, they start with Dark Star coming out of announcements about water.

Listening without watching it’s a bit easier to analyze rather than get lost in it. The intro happens and heads to a ride cymbal groove. It’s another outdoor Star. The riffing has a relaxed quality to it, the band allowing the music to happen. Jerry plays with some of the Bird Song licks a bit, moving out to the 9ths and 11ths of the key. Some covert tuning a couple minutes in, he comes in underneath everything afterwards, quiet and a darker tone. Some whale sounds in there to get him into a higher register. A funny little polyrhythm thing at 4:40, playing the swung threes as the beat, eventually playing around the theme area, but not every playing the actual theme. By the 7th minute it’s really threatening to land on the Dark Star theme on some upcoming downbeat but never does, and heads off to intensify the jam. Jerry starts doing double-stop bends and finding some interesting melodic points in the stretches. Over this crest, it comes back the theme groove with Phil on a rising riff version, Jerry starts taking off, Bob and Keith wander outside a bit into more minor chords in the mode. Drums back off at the next lull, 9:30 or so, Jerry and Keith on more arpeggio stasis. Gathering it up as Bill continues the groove, they continue onwards and enter a zone where everybody is on the triplets at 11 min, and it lands when that comes down right into the theme, though there appears to be some tempo adjustments between Jerry and Bill before he starts verse 1.

It grooves into line 1, really delicate and beautiful vocal delivery, the first real fermata of the piece on line 2, and back to the rolling groove for line 3. The refrain is a punctuation and they head out to the outro and into the next jam, Bill rolls but keeps a back beat, Phil is still in groove land, so they continue, Bob has some chord ideas. Jerry eventually comes in with Swelled high notes, sounding very pedal steel. Bill switches up the beat a bit leaning on the snare, Phil on a riffy type bass system. They head to more minor key area, and into stronger groove, but with jazzy overtones, Jerry starts the quick runs.

Eventually this leads them a little sideways, mode or key wise, though the groove still goes on.

An odd rhythm jam, stabby bits from Jerry in response to Bob, and more chromatic licks emerge. They all catch a little heap of sound at 17 and then build it, Bill still rocking out, they move into a quicker jam. It continues for several minutes, Phil eventually decides to do some root motion to test out some new mode areas a couple minutes later, but mostly he’s still riffing, and they dip down and keep plugging ahead until 20 minutes, when it takes a lull and emerges with a drum and bass solo, Bill still rocking out, so Phil is jamming alongside. At 21:30 he takes it up a whole step, Keith likes this so he starts playing along, Jerry follows with some rhythmic bits. He comes back with a lead a minute later, some fast playing, but with a rather mellow tone. Sounds like Bob has dropped out for a bit, back in with a very brittle tone. Jerry on some repeated licks that I think I’ve heard in TOO, then they go into chromatic sideways world with some odd chordal movement and they build with chromatic statements from everybody. Jerry comes in with the wah (Colorsound!) at 25 min. Still very jazzy and lots of forward momentum, still very chromatic, Jerry finds some odd melodic licks and plays around with them.

Minute 26 has some stasis, though with momentum still, some repeated notes and hints at arpeggiation, but it doesn’t rest, keeps going on.

In the 27th minute, Jerry’s melodic rooster licks come to full fruition. Keith has a wah wah on the keyboard! (How is that possible on an acoustic piano? Is it just some filtering to prevent feedback or something?) Everybody is rolling, Jerry starts the chromatic fast wah licks that lead to the Tiger, the meltdown is happening for him but it gives way to arpeggios in min 29 as nobody really followed Jerry into the Meltdown, they continued grooving on whatever they were on. Finally at 29:40, Bill cedes the rhythm to an arhythmic noise area with some big bass notes and odd riffy chords from Bob. Jerry starts a majestic statement of some sort that seems to be leading down and out of this area, though it lingers, they land eventually and Bob and Bill start El Paso.

-----
It’s weird to get to this version in this thread and realize how odd it is, comparatively. I’d seen the movie a couple times and never really considered that this version of Dark Star is not at all like the versions preceding it: it’s made of endless (fast) groove jamming, there are hardly any striking sectional or modal changes besides the verse, and it’s still a half hour long. There’s no space per se, and in that way it’s more like the versions of Playing In the Band that they had been developing in this period (the version of PitB at this show is 20 minutes, and great also, though a bit slow sounding.) The noise area of the Tiger is very brief, the chromatic stuff leading into that is more jazzy than scary, no monster movie soundtrack. All in all it’s a very tame Dark Star, space or meltdown-wise, more like a huge extended jam on the main theme with some slight exploration toward the latter half.

adamos:


They jump into the theme and head out on a stroll. There's a gliding feel but it's got some pace as well. The collective interweaving spins up nicely with Keith clear in the mix and Bobby adding his textures. Bill works the groove with plenty of cymbal sparkle. They slow up a bit after 3:00 and then carry forth. Things are mellowing but also blooming, almost like when something taken is beginning to kick in. They ride the wave and work the patterns in lovely fashion. Some high, pinchy notes call out from Jerry around 4:45 which Keith compliments. They continue to weave and wind in this general territory, with Jerry rising up and coming down after 6:10.

They gather a bit around 7:00 and it sounds like Jerry is heading back towards the theme but they carry forth on their stroll. Jerry winds lower, Bob adds some nice sparkly lines and the momentum kicks in again. They're moving with some pace now and the intensity grows. Things crest after 9:00 and again Jerry seems ready to head to the theme but they take their time and continue to work the adjacent territory. It sounds really nice and they build up momentum again before easing up around 10:20, after which there are some brief Sputnik-esque licks as noted by bzfgt.

From here they hover and gather for a spell then spin up the momentum again with a bit of edge coming from the guitars. It's a nice little pocket and they collectively rise up and bring it down, ready to land on the theme and then move on to the verse (which has some good punctuation from Bill).

After the verse they reset and Keith steps forward and they roll on into a groove pretty seamlessly. Bob has some prominent jangly rhythm while Phil and Billy work it underneath. Jerry plays mellow, bendy notes while the others are cooking along then he works up a complimentary line. Around 16:45 they ease up and move into a choppy, staggered thing with a sense of foreboding in the background. Phil and Billy keep it moving along while the others start getting weirder. Then at 17:40 Phil launches into a repeating note and everyone coalesces around it and they rise up and take off into a faster paced jam.

They start to ease up after 19:00 but don't let it go just yet. They hover a bit perhaps deciding on a new direction. Jerry spins up some stuff intermittently. Then Phil gets into a buoyant line that they weave around for a bit but pull back on fairly quickly. Phil takes the lead again as the others play off him in somewhat mellow fashion, although they are still moving along. This seems to run its course and Jerry, Bob and Keith lay off while Billy and Phil work it for a spell.

Keith comes back in followed by Jerry and it feels like something is starting to build. Jerry jumps into a quick paced line and Bob adds his textures. Jerry starts spinning it up faster and it feels like they are heading toward meltdown territory. The jam keeps rolling just in freakier, somewhat choppy fashion.

The wah comes in around 25:40 and the eventual meltdown inches closer but the freaky groove marches on. There's some Sputnik-y sparkle starting around 27:00 and Phil and Billy keep them driving forward while the others get weirder. Keith is now sounding more electronic which adds to the vibe. They continue to head in a melty direction but they aren't careening just yet. Keith is following Jerry's lead though and the Tiger will soon emerge. Keith slips in some trippy piano runs and things are spinning up.

By 29:20 Jerry lets it rip and the Tiger comes forth. It does its thing well but it's not the most intense telling and by 30:00 Jerry shifts into something more Sputnik-esque again. Keith chases him, Phil is working underneath and Bill is quite active too. They ease up and drift into a spacier zone; Phil hits some strong notes and Bob adds in nicely here too.

They drift and do some spacey revving and then we get the famous Morning Dew kibosh. I agree it's not as pronounced as the veto on the 8/21 but it goes down in infamy nonetheless. No worries; Sing Me Back Home will soon follow El Paso leading to another wonderful moment in Grateful Dead history.

It's a really good version that is indelibly connected to its time and place. But I agree that it's kind of like a big ongoing jam where they work the theme and some grooves for an extended period vs. having more pronounced movements and the freakouts are held somewhat in check. But still a worthy performance and perhaps that's what felt right as they brought on the end of a long, hot summer day.


Mr. Rain:


Veneta! The very name conjures up images of naked men on poles. Famous for being one of the only "classic" Dark Stars on film, is this the mighty Dark Star of legend, or a sun-baked white dwarf?
I listened to the released CD, so my times are different...

Nice relaxed opening jam, which flows along without any urgency, just a pleasant sunny ride. (Jerry sneaks in some tuning at 2 minutes.) Keith is well-heard here and very active in backing up Jerry with a steady stream of piano notes -- he's strong throughout. They feint at the theme at 6m, only to plunge onwards; the jam starts to pick up more bite around 7m as Jerry digs in, and he rises to a nice little peak at 8m; then they settle back down as Jerry has to fine-tune a string. The jam carries on, getting choppier; at 9.30 Jerry enters a tentative arpeggio which seems to promise deeper territory; instead Jerry ambles around a little longer, hinting at country & sputnik directions as the band pushes forward, until they land on the theme at 11:15. Not the smoothest theme entry, but it's odd that they speed up a little at the theme. The verse is a little sloppy (Jerry almost forgets "you and I...").

No space after the verse, the band doesn't feel like slowing down, though a solemn dark feel comes in. Starting at 13:35 Jerry hits the volume knob for some nice evocative swoops, then resumes the regular jamming. By 15m they're continuing almost unbroken from where they'd been before the verse; there isn't really a before & after distinction here, except that they're steadily speeding up. But at 16m Jerry seems to peter out and repeats some dissonant chord chops, maybe trying to push them in a different direction (doesn't work), and the music gets more diffuse. Phil pushes a repeating bass note at 16:40 to center everyone and get them going again, which works pretty well, and the jam revives. They skitter along, fast and jazzy; but after 18m the momentum seems to drop when Bob stops playing; at 18:30 Jerry hits some Eyes-like chords, perhaps to stir up Bob (without much success). The jam's getting looser again...actually at this point it sounds more like a Playing in the Band jam than a Dark Star, and they seem to be fumbling for a direction. By 19:30 Jerry is running out of ideas, but perseveres with some typical fast runs, then gives up at 20m and turns it over to Phil & Bill for a bass/drums break.

The rhythm duo carry the stage for a while with their peppy interlude; Keith joins them around 21:30, and at 21:55 Jerry returns with more of the chirpy Eyes-type chords. Then back to the fast runs, with Bob finally coming back with slashing chords at 22:50. Phil sounds like he might be hinting at a Feelin' Groovy, but it's just a passing thought. The fast groove continues...still gaining speed! Jerry's starting to aim in the Tiger direction with little spirals; the playing's starting to get a little chaotic, dissonance is creeping in; Jerry steps on the wah at 24:45 for some wah squawks. Now it really sounds like a Playing jam, there's little difference at this point. At 26m Jerry slips into a brief little Sputniky passage, sprinkling some stardust (Keith echoes him, and after 26:30 Keith's on his own wah too!). Then back to the funky jammin' -- Keith almost has a Rhodes-like sound going here, mirroring Jerry. The tension's rising, Jerry's getting frantic, nervous energy pouring out -- 28:25 Jerry starts the Tiger, but it doesn't go deep; before they really start roaring Jerry pulls out at 29m for more Sputnik-like floaty tinkles.

The band floats in place, washing out in the aftermath.... Jerry works the volume knob again, and Phil belatedly gets started on his Chords of Doom. They all focus on this in a remarkable blend of sound (big plus for Jerry's ominous notes and Keith's wah growls). Coming out of the feedback nebula, Jerry strikes up a perfectly-timed Morning Dew...then Bob steps on him with El Paso....Phil's confused, not knowing which way to turn....but Bill starts the El Paso beat and Jerry's open to it, so they go that way.

It's unusual that this Dark Star isn't really in "sections," the verse is almost an interruption as it's more like one steady flow throughout. They start out mellow, little by little pick up speed and get more jazzy & funky, and end up all hot & frantic. I liked the opening jam, but the last few minutes were the best part. I think this Dark Star suffers in the middle, when the jam almost falls apart and Jerry seems uncharacteristically at a loss, so the drum break comes off as a gasp of desperation, giving Jerry & Bob some time to recharge. Like JSegel said there aren't the usual changes of pace, it's all a fast groove and the band just doesn't want to break out of it; there's no space and not much Tiger either, so it's more like a Playing/Dark Star hybrid, with periods of uncertainty. Personally I find this Dark Star really lacking in oomph so I'd rank it near the bottom of the late '72 Dark Stars.

The official release perhaps makes any comparison of the various mixes on the Archive purely academic; but for the record, all the Archive copies stem from two mixes -- one from a 16-track>DAT copy, what you might call the "flat" mix without extra effects:
latvala & co. 4682
braverman 16582
(bertha-ashley 21619 remaster also uses this mix but adds lots of extra bass & processing)
-- then there's the older "reverb" version (a Betty board, of course!), which is pretty much the same mix balance but adds distinct reverb, especially noticeable on the vocals, drums & guitars; Bob's guitar is a lot brighter, and stands out more in this mix:
kaplan-hamilton 152
hollister 2199
orf 3328
serafin 8045 (which may be the best-sounding but chops Dark Star into 2 parts)
Personally I like the extra sparkle of Betty's mix. The official release keeps the same instrument positions, but Jerry & Phil in particular are boosted up.

VENETA REVISITED: MARCH 2023


Keith Godchaux:



Perhaps the biggest Dark Star question of all: would the Spectrum '72 DP 36 be better than Veneta if the Mind Left Body was not included?


Mr. Rain:



I thought almost every late-'72 Dark Star was better than Veneta!


Keith Godchaux:


Almost. Hmmm.

Truly, some do not think the Veneta Dark Star is anything to write home about. I've always enjoyed it for it's overall smoothness and creativity. It fills me up but never lets me down.

I took a double-shot of Veneta Dark Star on the headphones and wrote down some notes today. Nothing like the detailed in the write-ups here - it was more of holistic listen / sanity check. I don't put on the Soundboards quite as often, which is where most of late 1972 is; but my daily routine since roughly 2014 has been at least one Dark Star a day, whatever else happens. I don't know that I would have maintained the same voracious appetite for the Grateful Dead over the years without it.

00:00 - 7:00 Easy main theme Dark Star tempo. Jerry noodles along. Keith has some incredible piano parts (he may get "most creative" for this one). Weir contributes some sparse but effective high-range fills that resonate in my head like splashes of color - it's odd). Phil is in there (Happy Birthday to us), and it all sounds like the most relaxing, floaty lazy river stuff.
7:00 -11:30 They get a bit louder and plateau here for a bit - not as floaty, more jazzy. Jerry and Keith come through the most to me, so my focus is on them. I don't know if the actual tempo picks up or if Billy is doing some double time (I'm not a musician); whatever it is, the excitability increases.
11:30 - 13:00 1st verse. Jerry delivers an incredible 5 star vocal delivery - certainly not a given from Star to Star.
13:00 20:00 some cool volume control playing from Garcia. Weir has a chop or two. Keith goes on Keithing. There is a theme change in there and intensity builds as Phil's playing gets faster and Jerry picks away with some bluesy Strat-tone lead work.
20:00 22:00 - Phil and Billy jamming for a bit, then Keith joins in after 90 seconds with good stuff.
22:00 - 28:00 - Jerry joins back in with some little chord fills at first, and then he's off for a romp of good old fashioned Jerry lead. Bobby gets back in the mix a couple of minutes later. Jerry gets the wah wah out for a bit; then he turns up the mid ranage Stratifier blues picking again. Keith continues filling in with appropriate tasty piano.
28:00 31:30 - Great conclusion, one of the best of '72 IMHO. They simmer down and prepare for meltdown. Tension and volume increases. Keith sounds like he has wah on his piano; Jerry and he both go into wah wah mode, mirroring each other a Tiger theme. Phil has some cool bass outro stuff going on: at first some long sustained / distorted notes; then he has some repeated descending lines. They slow a bit and go into wind down mode, albeit loud ("speak LOUDLY"). Keith is on fire at 31:05 with mesmerizing wah wah piano loop.

I don't care for aimless meandering and superfluous atonal cacophony; that being said I feel a little bit is effective to build tension and release. Veneta scores points for me in this sense. The other end of the spectrum is something like the last 10 minutes of the Dark Star from 3/28/73 (DaP 16). There is no war and peace (tension / release) in there; the peace is Eyes of the World.

I'm looking forward to listening to latter '72 DS with a more critical ear, because we all need a purpose. My purpose is to discover where Veneta truly stands among its peers. I hope it's the worst of the lot.


Mr. Rain:


Ha, the Veneta Dark Star's not the worst of the lot! For that, you can turn to 10/26/72...
The Veneta DS is very smooth & consistent (and some Dark Stars in '72 can be very inconsistent), but great as it is it doesn't quite take me where I want to go. I wrote in my review, "There's no space and not much Tiger either, so it's more like a Playing/Dark Star hybrid... I find this Dark Star really lacking in oomph so I'd rank it near the bottom of the late '72 Dark Stars." But now I'd say it's more middle of the pack.
I'd agree that the end's especially good, and I love when Keith & Jerry are both raising up a storm on the wah, which they often did in late '72.
For my own taste, I tend to prefer the chasms of space and the fiery blasts of noise in Dark Star.
For more Keith wah goodness, check out 8/21/72!

bzfgt:


I don't know that there's a definitive answer to where Veneta stands. It was never one of my favorites, but it has steadily grown on me over the years, and I do rate it these days. It is consistently one of the top-rated Dark Stars, not just of 1972 but in general, among Deadheads. It might be suggested that there are extrinsic reasons for this--the availability of the tape long before lots of others from the era were in widespread circulation, the movie, and a kind of self-fulfilling prophecy effect of its reputation coloring many people's judgment. There is probably truth to all that. Nevertheless, it's clearly a good version, in an era when Dark Star was consistently magical and the band were at some kind of peak of power. Any relative judgment is legitimate as long as it's one that acknowledges that this is a powerful piece of music, which seems undeniable to me. One could acknowledge this and still conclude that it's less satisfying than whatever other pet versions one cherishes from this amazingly fruitful era. It could wind up being your #1 version of 1972, or it could be dethroned by one of the Berkeley versions, or 12-11, 11-13, or whichever. Either way, I'm interested to hear what conclusions you've reached next week, next year, and/or ten years from now.